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I have fond memories of programming the 6502, though I never did any hardware hacking with it. I notice that the Altair, with its iconic front panel, was based on the Intel 8080, and from then on, Intel/Zilog and Motorola/MOS Technology ecosystems developed quite separately with limited crossover. The closest thing I know of to a 6502 equivalent of the Altair was the SWTPC which was based on the 6800 and did not have a similar front panel. I'm wondering whether a machine like the Altair could have been just as easily built around the 6502, to what extent this is a matter of technology versus historical contingency.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502

The main change in terms of chip size was the elimination of the three-state from the address bus outputs. This had been included in the 6800 to allow it to work with other chips in direct memory access (DMA) and co-processing roles, at the cost of significant die space. In practice, using such a system required the other devices to be similarly complex, and designers instead tended to use off-chip systems to coordinate such access. The 6502 simply removed this feature, in keeping with its design as an inexpensive controller being used for specific tasks and communicating with simple devices. Peddle suggested that anyone that actually required this style of access could implement it with a single 74158.

That last sounds like hyperbole; a Google search suggests the 74158 was a quad multiplexer, so four of them plus glue logic would've been needed to build a multiplexer for a 16-bit address bus?

But in any case, doesn't the Altair front panel depend on the ability to do exactly what is described, tri-state the CPU in order to take over as a DMA device? Would that be a significant obstacle to building such a system around the 6502 (at least without having to provide extra logic which would tend to negate the cost advantage of the CPU itself)?

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    The Altair front panel is copied from the Mainframes and Minis that also did have such a front panel. So it's definitely not tied to the Z80, and, as you say, with a bit of glue logic if necessary should work for any kind of CPU, 6502 included. – dirkt Nov 19 '20 at 12:51
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    I guess the easiest way would be to map the switches to memory, and then have a simple interrupt routine handle the various requests from the front panel. – OmarL Nov 19 '20 at 12:59
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    @OmarL but that would require a ROM to boot from, and the Altair does not have that. After power-up, there is no program to run, so the front panel is used to load in code before CPU is allowed to execute. – Justme Nov 19 '20 at 13:28
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    @Justme. Well the hypothetical computer would have to be designed rather differently from the Altair I guess, since I believe the 6502 requires a ROM (hint: the interrupt vectors and things are in ROM). And of course, the Altair 680 has a ROM which contains a simple monitor. – OmarL Nov 19 '20 at 13:54
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    @dirkt I have not ever used a physical front panel, but an emulated one yes. But I'm not sure I understand what your point exactly is; for example I can see the utility of a front panel for debugging a ZX Spectrum or Oric-1 or something like that. – OmarL Nov 19 '20 at 15:19
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But in any case, doesn't the Altair front panel depend on the ability to do exactly what is described, tri-state the CPU in order to take over as a DMA device? Would that be a significant obstacle to building such a system around the 6502 (at least without having to provide extra logic which would tend to negate the cost advantage of the CPU itself)?

Depends on what you want to reach and how.

For simply single stepping, i.e. let the CPU execute a single instruction per step, the classic solution is using the NMI and handle everything else in software, which is in line with the basic 6502 idea of do as much in software. This method was for example used with the KIM. When the SST switch is set, every instruction outside the KIM ROM (*1) fetched (marked by SYNC) will issue a NMI, which is served by the ROM, giving control back to the monitor, allowing any operation to examine/change memory, I/O and as well registers (*2), something not possible by taking over the bus.

Singe cycling, i.e. let the CPU execute one and exactly one clock cycle per step, needs to be done in hardware. Here it's simply about pulling RDY. This works because every cycle of a 6502 is a memory cycle, so pulling RDY will extend that memory access for as many cycles as RDY is active.

While the basic logic is rather simple, it gets a bit more sophisticated when combining functions. Still, the whole circuitry for single stepping cycles and instructions needs just 6 TTL and fits on a single page of the Hardware Manual :

enter image description here

(Figure 3.1 on p.125 of the January 1976 second edition)

Of course this only lets one static examine bus state and all signals. To be able to read/write memory independent of the CPU, as set of tristate buffers and/or muxes would be needed to take over the bus while the CPU is halted. Plus the usual bunch of switches and LED ofc.

Over all hardware effort would be comparable with Altairs front panel.


*1 - That is only the KIM ROM (6530-002 at $1C000), not the cassette extension (6530-003 at $1800).

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    On the original 6502, doesn't RDY block reads only? And you can't outright stop the clock indefinitely because the registers aren't static. – Tommy Nov 19 '20 at 19:46
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    The stopped clock comment was meant to be a separate comment — I definitely could have phrased that better. Apologies for the ambiguity. But I think you're wrong about RDY. To quote the data sheet: "The Ready input signal allows the user to halt or single cycle the microprocessor on all cycles except write cycles ... [i]f Ready is low during a write cycle, it is ignored until the following read operation.". So I think probably the 6502 couldn't be used with an Altair-style front panel? – Tommy Nov 19 '20 at 20:15
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    @Tommy Oops. You're right. It wasn't until the R65C02 that RDY as well worked for write cycles. It always help to check manual before answering - especially when very sure about a fact :) Sorry. Now, Front panel operation is still possible ... except write cycles will become invisible. I's say adding a latch and a FF could solve that - or using a C02 :)) – Raffzahn Nov 19 '20 at 20:34
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    @chthon Single step is when execution gets stopped every instruction, while single cycle is about stopping every clock cycle within an operation. – Raffzahn Nov 19 '20 at 20:37
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    @Raffzahn: Ah yes. From an electronics project in a magazine from around 1978, I actually thought that these things were actually only about single step (project describes such a front-end for a Z80 microcomputer). – chthon Nov 20 '20 at 9:14
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Even without three-state drivers, one could have fairly easily built a computer with an Altair-style front panel by using three-position switches that included a contact for the middle position which would connect the CPU. For the machine to run, the address and data switches would need to be in the middle position to let the CPU drive them. Such a design could be reasonable convenient if it included a couple of hinged levers that would allow groups of eight switches to be switched high or low simultaneously.

Alternatively, a system could use a 25-pole switch to assert READY (freezing program execution with a contact that should break first), disconnect the address and data from the CPU, and connect address to the front panel and data to a ten-pole switch which would disconnect read-enable, connect the data switches, and assert write-enable. While 25-pole switch might seem like a monstrosity, mechanical many-pole switching arrangements used to be somewhat common before the days of electronic control systems. A robust way of doing the switching would be to use a group of roller-actuated microswitches operated by cams, but even contacts sliding on a PC board would likely have worked.

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